History Slam Episode Twenty-Six: The Black Panthers in Saskatchewan

August 04, 2020

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By Sean Graham

I often say that Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan is one of my favourite cities in the country – in part because of the way it has capitalized on Al Capone and the possibility that the legendary Chicago gangster conducted business in the city in the 1920s and 1930s. This is perhaps best exemplified at the Moose Jaw tunnels tour that takes visitors through a day in the life of a bootlegger.

But this is not the only connection between Chicago and Saskatchewan. Only weeks before his death, famed Black Panther Fred Hampton gave a speech at the Regina Campus of the University of Saskatchewan – now the University of Regina. The visit was met by mixed emotions in the community and highlighted the commonalities between the civil rights struggles of African Americans in the United States and First Nations in Canada.

In this episode of the History Slam podcast, I talk with Dawn Flood of Campion College at the University of Regina about Fred Hampton and his visit to Saskatchewan. We chat about racial discrimination in Chicago, the reputation of the Black Panthers, the reason for coming to Saskatchewan, and Fred Hampton’s death. An expert on Chicago’s history, Professor Flood is the author of Rape in Chicago: Race, Myth, and the Courts.

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Video Transcript:

00:05
welcome to the history scientists are
00:08
grafted history dot seeing here is your
00:11
host sean graham and thank you adam
00:16
welcome to the history slam podcast
00:18
everybody I am Sean Graham coming at you
00:20
nearly live we are in Victoria British
00:22
Columbia part of Congress and the CH a
00:26
annual meeting is our biggest continuing
00:28
coverage of Congress as we continue to
00:31
interview interview people here it’s the
00:33
last day actually Congress just or the
00:35
CH a annual meeting just ended and it’s
00:38
all over for another year but there’s
00:40
still opportunity to talk about some of
00:42
the material that was discussed Erin and
00:43
two of my favorite things are Regina and
00:48
one of my favorite things in studies
00:50
race relations in the United States and
00:52
the civil rights movement it’s actually
00:54
the first thing that I ever published
00:55
was on civil rights movement in the
00:57
1950s so I’m thrilled to have our guests
01:00
here today from the University of Regina
01:02
Campion College at the University of
01:04
Regina know that I’m a advisor was in
01:07
campus that’s right Campion College at
01:09
the University of Regina don flood
01:12
studies the history of Chicago and in
01:14
this particular case the Black Panthers
01:16
well who the podcast thank you thank you
01:18
sorry sure to be here I’m thrilled to
01:20
have you here so your presentation the
01:22
other day on Monday you talked about
01:24
Fred Hampton and his visit to what was
01:27
then the Regina campus of the University
01:30
of Saskatchewan yeah but before we
01:32
really get into the part about
01:34
Saskatchewan his visit to Regina who was
01:36
fred hampton and why is he a notable
01:38
figure Fred Hampton was african-american
01:41
youth in Illinois he grew up in Maywood
01:45
Illinois which is a working-class suburb
01:46
of Chicago so not in the city proper but
01:51
very early on in his life I’m in his
01:53
teenage years he came to the attention
01:55
both of the n-double-a-cp the National
01:58
Association for the Advancement of
01:59
Colored People as a youth leader he
02:02
helped to organize a youth group in his
02:04
high school at maywood and also helped
02:06
to organize a campaign to integrate the
02:11
swimming pools the public swimming pools
02:13
maywood Chicago of course located on
02:16
Lake Michigan you think you know those
02:18
these beaches that people can go
02:20
swimming all the time but it was very
02:22
it’s a very segregated City and a lot of
02:24
african-american communities both in the
02:27
suburbs as well as in the city itself
02:30
were located so far away from the lake
02:32
miles away that it might as well have
02:34
been you know the Atlantic coast right
02:36
so public pools were often closed to
02:39
african-american youths because of
02:42
racial segregation so he helped to
02:44
organize around this issue of
02:46
integrating the pools the public pools
02:47
in maywood which brought him to the
02:49
attention of civil rights organizers as
02:51
a youth leader it also brought him to
02:53
the attention of the FBI and jaga edgar
02:56
Hoover he was put a very early odd in
02:59
his teenage years on the key a jeté tur
03:02
index list which is a precursor to the
03:06
infamous cointelpro or
03:08
counterintelligence program which was
03:11
funded I think in 1968 or 1969 it began
03:16
it was an official program within the
03:17
FBI that trained young agents to kind of
03:21
learn the lingo of radical youth and to
03:24
be able to infiltrate and and thereby
03:26
disrupt organizing so Americans on TV
03:30
you know that great yeah show exactly
03:32
exactly oh so that’s who fred hampton
03:35
was and so you know very early on in his
03:38
life he paid attention to you know kind
03:40
of issues of discrimination of
03:42
inequality he was brought up on charges
03:44
in maywood for allegedly sticking up an
03:48
ice cream truck in a very Robin Hood
03:50
esque type of situation he robbed an ice
03:53
cream truck allegedly and handed out the
03:57
ice cream bars to the the children of
03:59
the neighborhood the black children of
04:00
the neighborhood now it’s questionable
04:04
whether or not it was actually Fred
04:05
Hampton who did this as was very typical
04:08
in the late 1960s black suspects
04:10
especially to victims of crime who might
04:13
have been white oftentimes misidentified
04:16
black suspects you know they all kind of
04:18
look alike right or the police would go
04:20
after you know a black man they found
04:22
walking down the street in a wrong
04:24
neighborhood because he’s so you know
04:25
supposedly fit a description and so it
04:27
seems like Fred Hampton fell into that
04:29
kind of situation so and and it seems as
04:32
though I’m in Chicago has the reputation
04:33
and even to this day is very a rough and
04:36
tumble at City politically and
04:39
culturally and socially and to be able
04:41
to survive in that environment it’s
04:43
almost like you have to have that
04:44
mentality oh yes and and almost this you
04:48
know maybe radicalism to be able to
04:50
become a prominent leader in Chicago and
04:51
that seems an automatic of just the city
04:53
as a whole right yeah Chicago does have
04:56
a long history of you know kind of a
04:57
working-class culture right a very rough
05:00
culture rough in politics definitely the
05:02
political machine of Chicago political
05:05
corruption went hand-in-hand with police
05:07
corruption in that city you know a long
05:09
history of violent labor activism going
05:11
back to the late 19th century and the
05:14
civil rights movement in Chicago
05:15
certainly has longer history than you
05:18
know kind of the the mainstream
05:19
narrative would tell us or the
05:21
traditional narrative it kind of begins
05:23
in 1966 when King brought in Martin
05:26
Luther King brought the movement north
05:27
obviously that’s not true things were
05:29
going on in Chicago long before Cain
05:32
came there but when King came to Chicago
05:35
he encountered a culture that was not
05:39
entirely foreign to him certainly in
05:42
terms of racial discrimination and white
05:44
violence toward african-americans but
05:47
what he didn’t expect was the mayor
05:50
Mayor Daley who held such tight control
05:53
over the city and king claimed that he’s
05:55
like you know I never encountered this
05:57
kind of intransigence this kind of
05:59
resistance this kind of trouble even in
06:02
Selma even in you know Birmingham so
06:05
Chicago does have that history certainly
06:08
yeah and which is interesting because
06:09
you know one of the things you think
06:11
about Chicago we think about this this
06:12
vibrant culture an african-american
06:15
culture in particular that comes out of
06:16
the city and the fact that you’re
06:19
talking about how this city is actually
06:21
very segregated and there’s these
06:22
divisions it’s interesting to think not
06:25
only because it’s a northern city I mean
06:27
I know it’s a Midwestern city that the
06:29
segregation comes through as prominently
06:31
as it does it’s somewhat surprising i
06:33
think and like i say it goes against
06:35
that mainstream narrow
06:37
the civil rights movement yeah I think
06:39
one of the reasons why we think about
06:41
the the traditional narrative civil
06:43
rights as you know kind of southern
06:45
segregation northern racial utopia well
06:47
obviously this is not the case right the
06:50
south in the u.s. to this day has a
06:52
larger black population so while racial
06:54
segregation was the order of the day
06:56
whites and blacks they were neighbors
06:58
they mixed in town in a way that just
07:01
didn’t happen in northern cities when
07:03
African Americans began migrating to the
07:05
north in Chicago in particular began in
07:07
the 1910s mostly as a way to take
07:10
advantage of job opportunities during
07:13
the Great War during World War one and
07:15
they moved to distinct neighborhoods and
07:18
these neighborhoods were very small
07:20
neighborhoods and couldn’t absorb as
07:22
quickly as they needed to the population
07:25
influx this happened in World War one
07:27
but especially in World War two because
07:29
in World War two more african-americans
07:31
were coming north more job opportunities
07:33
the US was in World War two longer than
07:36
they participated in world war one and
07:38
also and this is huge mechanized
07:41
cotton-picking the mechanized cotton
07:43
picker it eliminated the career of
07:46
sharecropping as bad of a career as that
07:48
was one could eke out a living if they
07:51
didn’t own their own land as a
07:53
sharecropper picking cotton once the
07:56
mechanized cotton picker came into place
07:57
that displaced black workers and they
07:59
had to go somewhere and so you see in
08:02
northern cities Chicago Detroit New York
08:04
you see race riots happening during
08:07
World War two as these traditional
08:10
historically black neighborhoods begin
08:12
pushing against the boundaries of ethnic
08:14
white working-class neighborhoods and so
08:17
you get a a maintenance of racial
08:20
segregation in the north and ways that
08:22
you just didn’t have in the south and so
08:25
but then it’s interesting too because
08:26
Emmett Till was from Chicago was and and
08:30
he goes down to the south and the
08:32
lynching of Emmett Till you don’t know
08:33
the story Google that there’s a
08:35
documentary utiful documentary that was
08:38
done about it that I that’s the mutt was
08:39
my first exposure to the story but you
08:41
get he’s lynched for whistling allegedly
08:45
with
08:45
at a white woman in eagan flinch in a
08:47
very horrifying way yes but then i’m
08:50
wondering then because a big part of the
08:52
story is his mother’s reaction that she
08:54
publishes the photos of the it’s really
08:59
actually quite violent yes the photos
09:02
the the way he was the violence that was
09:06
done on to him and I’m wondering is is
09:09
her activism in that respect having
09:12
those pictures published part of this
09:14
wider cultural situation in Chicago that
09:17
it was response to the segregation that
09:19
she would be experiencing on a daily
09:21
basis as much as it is a reaction to her
09:23
son’s death I mean I think that’s an
09:26
interesting point Emmett Till of course
09:28
you know came to the south with somewhat
09:31
different racial attitudes right this
09:33
picture of a white girl he had in his
09:35
wallet that he liked to brag to his
09:37
southern cousins this was his girlfriend
09:39
probably the picture came with the
09:41
wallet you know Chicago black teenagers
09:43
did not date white teenagers right in
09:47
the 1950s and and probably he didn’t
09:49
encounter white people very often right
09:52
because these black neighborhoods in
09:54
Chicago were self-sustaining
09:55
neighborhoods right he lived there you
09:58
went to school there you know their
10:00
parents usually worked in these
10:02
neighborhoods so he wouldn’t have
10:03
encountered white people all that often
10:05
you know if he went downtown maybe
10:07
riding on a streetcar yeah he could sit
10:10
in the front of the elk are the elevated
10:13
train the subway he didn’t have to ride
10:15
in the back of the bus but he didn’t
10:17
encounter white people very often so he
10:18
came south with different racial
10:19
attitudes and I think his mother perhaps
10:25
didn’t necessarily impart the lessons of
10:28
racial segregation that she would have
10:31
grown up being aware of and so she
10:34
didn’t tell him not to do that right he
10:36
didn’t expect that to be such a strict
10:38
rule because he could maybe sit next to
10:41
a white teenager on the subway even if
10:44
he wasn’t going to date her this was an
10:46
absolute separate rule in the south
10:48
writeln Emmett Till didn’t know it and
10:50
so I think her response was I want the
10:53
world to see what they did to my boy as
10:55
a way of waking up the north right to
10:58
the horrors of
10:59
segregation definitely and then so one
11:02
of the groups that’s really active in
11:03
the north and it’s interesting because
11:05
when we think of the civil rights
11:07
movement in the 50s and 60s a lot of it
11:10
comes to the n-double-a-cp course Nick
11:13
these groups and there’s so much
11:15
associated with the south mm-hmm even
11:18
though the SCLC the sdlc was began in
11:22
the south yeah southern southern uh but
11:25
the rest of them are national
11:27
organizations and and but the way was
11:29
the they’re framed is that their groups
11:32
operating in the south and they need the
11:34
assistance of northerners yeah and as
11:36
opposed to be national organizations
11:38
that are pushing for racial equality
11:39
across the country uh-huh but I think
11:42
one of those groups that I think is
11:44
characterized as a national group is a
11:46
black panther party mm-hmm and so I’m
11:49
wondering then how how was the Black
11:52
Panther Party operating in Chicago and
11:54
how are they doing it differently from
11:56
some of these other organizations that’s
11:58
a great question I’m the Black Panthers
12:01
were originally founded in oakland
12:03
california in 1966 co-founded by huey p
12:06
newton and bobby seale these are the you
12:09
know the big names the lure of the party
12:11
and it began from the start very much as
12:14
an urban group right they took the image
12:18
of the Black Panther possibly they took
12:20
this image from Alabama from Loudoun
12:22
County Alabama from a more you know kind
12:25
of radicalized militant group associated
12:27
with the southern civil rights movement
12:29
but from the start the Black Panthers
12:31
were organized in cities they were
12:33
organized around issues of urban poverty
12:35
of police violence in the cities you
12:38
know southern sheriff’s were certainly
12:39
violent against civil rights marchers
12:41
but that was at the march right those
12:44
were at the marches it wasn’t an
12:46
everyday thing the way you know black
12:48
residents and urban ghettos in the north
12:50
were getting you know targeted by the
12:52
police all the time and getting beat up
12:54
by the police for no reason whatsoever
12:56
except for just walking down the street
12:57
you know if the police felt like it and
12:59
so this was one of the issues that the
13:01
black panthers immediately began
13:03
organizing around this idea of policing
13:05
the police we’re going to watch the
13:06
police we’re going to make sure that
13:08
they don’t harass innocent
13:12
African Americans for no reason right
13:14
we’re going to use the laws to our
13:16
advantage this idea California at the
13:18
time had open carry laws you could carry
13:21
guns right black people didn’t carry
13:24
guns so when the Black Panthers first
13:27
march to the Capitol in Sacramento armed
13:30
all of a sudden the FBI was like we had
13:33
a different kind of group on our hands
13:35
here you know this was a much scarier
13:37
image to especially white liberals who
13:40
might have felt very good about
13:41
themselves and supporting the idea of
13:43
racial equality and and sending money to
13:45
help support King’s organization and
13:47
break up the you know coloreds only
13:49
whites only drinking fountains and
13:52
washrooms in the South you know they can
13:53
feel good about themselves in resisting
13:55
that but all of a sudden they’re coming
13:57
face to face with you know large Negroes
14:00
with guns and that changed a lot of
14:03
white lines at the time maybe they
14:05
became very scared and very quickly the
14:08
FBI targeted the group as one of the
14:10
most dangerous as a threat to national
14:12
security and to be fair one of the main
14:15
kind of raison d’être if you will the
14:18
Black Panther Party was the overthrow
14:21
the revolution of society the overthrow
14:22
of capitalism of imperialism of fascism
14:25
right well it’s all well and good to
14:27
overthrow fascism but in Cold War
14:29
America to say you want to overthrow
14:31
capitalism that was a pretty threatening
14:33
gesture and yet the organization has
14:36
this reputation is like you say it since
14:39
it’s something that is seen as dangerous
14:41
but in terms of their community
14:43
organizing they’re very proactive in
14:46
simply mobilizing programs to help the
14:49
community yeah so so how is there or how
14:51
can we understand the organization and
14:54
balance this you know carrying guns to
14:56
the capital versus a breakfast program
14:58
right exactly ok how do we reconcile
15:02
them because they seem so such divergent
15:04
mm-hmm activities well i think that the
15:07
guns part right the Black Panther Party
15:09
its original name was the Black Panther
15:10
Party for self-defense right so the idea
15:13
of using violence and self-defense to
15:16
defend the rights the inherent rights of
15:18
racial minorities right that’s what
15:20
people were forgetting about that
15:22
african-americans shouldn’t have to
15:24
struggle for rights they had these
15:26
rights as US citizens right so that’s
15:29
the guns part and that’s the part that
15:31
appealed to who the part the Panthers
15:34
were targeting they wanted to recruit
15:36
members tough tough members who didn’t
15:38
kowtow to the man right they they went
15:40
after gang members they said you know
15:42
you’ve been able to survive in the
15:44
streets we want to channel we want to
15:46
focus your anger at the police we want
15:48
to channel that energy into productive
15:50
means of revolutionising society they
15:53
didn’t want a part of the pie they
15:54
wanted to throw the pie out right and so
15:58
the guns part is what appealed to the
16:01
membership right that that made him look
16:03
cool and it gave emasculated black men a
16:07
sense of empowerment right you know no
16:09
longer we’re ghetto police going to kick
16:11
in their heads they were going to fight
16:12
back but it was the Socialists oriented
16:15
reform programs the providing free
16:17
breakfast for school children providing
16:19
free medical clinics in the ghetto
16:21
political education programs liberation
16:24
schools teaching black culture black
16:27
history to pant their children there’s
16:29
wonderful images of you know little
16:31
Panther kids going to school in what
16:34
would today just be school uniforms but
16:35
they’re like mini versions of the
16:37
Panthers with the Berets and the black
16:39
leather and such they didn’t have guns
16:40
because they were kids exactly so so you
16:45
know on the one hand self-defense is
16:47
part of the party but on the other hand
16:49
it was this idea of revolutionising
16:52
society we’re going to overthrow
16:53
capitalism because the panther leaders
16:55
understood Huey P Newton understood this
16:57
from the start and many leaders
16:58
including Fred Hampton understood from
17:00
the start that poverty caused all manner
17:04
of problems that it wasn’t racial
17:06
segregation per se that was causing
17:08
poverty although certainly they went
17:10
hand-in-hand but poverty caused you know
17:13
a desperation that led Street youth into
17:16
perhaps the abuse of drugs and and you
17:18
know crime to feed that abuse of drugs
17:21
right so we can overthrow capitalism if
17:24
we can give racial minorities all
17:27
progressive People’s a fair shot then we
17:32
won’t have to worry about this kind of
17:33
violence on the streets anymore given
17:35
that this is sort of the this is there
17:36
Andy this is what they’re trying to
17:37
accomplish why in the world would they
17:40
come to Regina Saskatchewan to give a
17:43
talk at the the Regina campus of the
17:45
University of Saskatchewan yes it was a
17:47
surprising event when I first learned
17:50
about it I said this in my talk I first
17:53
learned about it when i arrived in
17:55
vagina Campion College in 2005 nouns
17:58
eight years ago the second semester I
18:01
was teaching a modern US history course
18:03
got to the 60s started talking about the
18:05
civil rights movement mentioned Fred
18:07
Hampton and the Black Panther Party in
18:09
Chicago because I was very familiar with
18:11
Chicago and the students told me my
18:13
students told me that he came to this
18:15
campus right in 1969 I thought well how
18:19
could that be he was killed in nineteen
18:21
he was murdered by Chicago police in
18:22
December of 1969 and and the chicago
18:26
chapter the Black Panthers wasn’t
18:27
organized until nineteen sixty eight so
18:29
it’s a very small window of a tour and
18:32
so I you know started looking into this
18:35
a little bit and what I discovered was
18:38
that in fact Fred Hampton and two of his
18:41
colleagues from the Chicago chapter at
18:43
the time it was called the Illinois
18:44
chapter it was the only chapter of the
18:47
Black Panther Party in the state of
18:48
Illinois so I call it the Chicago
18:50
chapter but its official title was the
18:52
Illinois chapter two of his colleagues
18:54
Willie Calvert and Jerry Aldridge Jerry
18:56
is a woman by the way Geraldine Aldridge
18:58
came to Regina in 1969 as part of a
19:02
fundraising tour at the time Bobby Seale
19:05
one of the cofounders of the party was
19:07
on trial for conspiracy the so-called
19:09
conspiracy to disrupt the 1968
19:12
Democratic National Convention which was
19:14
in fact held in Chicago seal was not one
19:18
of the organizers of the protests
19:20
outside the convention he just happened
19:22
to be there and as you know kind of part
19:25
of this new left world he spoke at one
19:28
of the meanings but he kind of got
19:29
lumped in with the other organizers and
19:31
there were different categories of
19:33
people on trial there were the politicos
19:35
the guys who were actually trying to
19:37
disrupt the convention for political
19:39
reasons there were the Yippies the youth
19:41
international party that just wanted to
19:42
have a party in the park and you know
19:44
have fun and and show that one can live
19:47
peacefully part
19:49
festival of life they wanted to hold in
19:51
contrast to what they called the party
19:53
of death and what they meant was the
19:55
Democrats who were responsible for
19:56
leading the u.s. into involvement in the
19:59
Vietnam War and so Bobby Seale wasn’t
20:02
really part of that organization but he
20:04
got lumped in with them when the state
20:07
brought charges conspiracy charges
20:09
against them and so in court Bobby Seale
20:13
was insisting upon his own lawyer in
20:16
court you didn’t want to be defended by
20:17
the lawyer who was defending the other
20:19
defendants but his lawyer Charles Gary
20:21
was not available at the time I think he
20:23
was recovering from surgery or something
20:25
on the west coast and he couldn’t travel
20:27
and so you know judge julius hoffman who
20:30
is very much a part of that
20:31
establishment the same as mayor daley
20:33
the same as jaga edgar Hoover right the
20:36
man who just didn’t understand this new
20:38
wave of radical activism said okay well
20:41
you have a lawyer you have
20:42
representation are you refusing this
20:44
representation and Bobby Seale kept on
20:47
insisting that he had a right to
20:48
representation and he had a right to
20:50
choose his own representation and julius
20:53
hoffman was saying you have a lawyer you
20:55
know and so Bobby Seale kept on
20:58
disrupting the preceding saying this is
21:00
unconstitutional you know you can’t do
21:02
this I have rights and so hoffman had
21:05
ordered bound and gagged in court
21:08
literally silencing the man so the
21:11
imagery of a black man in Chains right
21:14
with a gag in his mouth not put there
21:17
gently by the Chicago Police I might add
21:19
certainly caused a lot of problems right
21:22
and also was a point of fundraising for
21:25
the Black Panther Party so Hampton and
21:28
his colleagues came to Regina when they
21:29
were invited by the Regina Students
21:31
Union in part to you know kind of raised
21:35
funds and expose the injustice ‘as of
21:37
this Bobby Seale trial that was going on
21:39
at the time but also because Hampton
21:41
like many other Panther leaders was very
21:43
committed to organizing the people the
21:46
Black Panthers had a membership that was
21:48
exclusively black but they weren’t
21:50
necessarily racially exclusive right
21:53
they were interested in organizing
21:55
anyone who was interested in revolution
21:58
and progressive People’s as Fred Hampton
22:00
put it progressive People’s everywhere
22:03
we’re under threat and so I think that
22:05
he was also very interested in making
22:09
these kinds of connections across the
22:10
border and one of the things that came
22:13
up at the talk the other day too is that
22:15
the regina campus and Jim Petula is
22:17
written about yes Regina campus
22:19
extensively but yes the sense that the
22:21
Regina campus is more activists listen
22:24
then the University of Saskatchewan
22:27
campus in Saskatoon so that would help
22:29
account maybe for why the Regina campus
22:31
would send this invite to the Black
22:34
Panthers I think so I think so the
22:36
Regina campus had much more of a focus
22:39
on liberal arts it didn’t have
22:40
professional schools the way the
22:41
University of Saskatchewan did at the
22:43
time the University of Regina today of
22:45
course has some professional schools but
22:47
it still doesn’t have the law school or
22:49
the medical school those are located in
22:51
Saskatoon so the perception certainly
22:53
was that and I think it’s probably true
22:56
at the time and like you said Jim Pitts
22:57
Allah is the kind of my main resource on
23:00
this was that saskatoon had a more
23:02
professional more conservative student
23:05
population and the liberal arts students
23:07
and the humanities students of the
23:08
regina campus kind of embraced their
23:11
reputation of radicalism and began
23:13
taking on you know the university
23:16
administration much like the Free Speech
23:19
Movement was doing in the United States
23:21
at the time and also was very interested
23:23
in in civil rights issues and looked
23:25
across the border as kind of a model for
23:28
how to pattern their own activism
23:30
because of course racial issues in
23:32
regina centered around you know the
23:35
status of the maytee and problems of
23:38
impoverished First Nations people so I’m
23:41
assuming then that the reaction or the
23:43
reception of Hampton was rather positive
23:46
then on the campus and that he would
23:50
have been well received by the students
23:53
but I’m wondering in the city outside of
23:57
the campus what was the reaction and you
24:01
know you the things like the leader-post
24:02
yeah I mean how are people perceiving
24:05
this action by the students and inviting
24:07
all right Hampton to the city well
24:09
that’s an interesting question because
24:11
the the things I discovered what I
24:13
looked into this reaction you’re
24:15
absolutely right on
24:16
mpus the student pick newspaper the
24:18
carillon reported that there were
24:19
somewhere between 600 700 students
24:21
attending the talk that he gave on
24:23
campus which is a you know pretty good
24:25
turnout for a relatively small ish
24:27
campus I don’t know how what the
24:29
population of the Regina campus was at
24:31
the time as a couple thousand at least
24:33
but not as big as it is today obviously
24:35
so it was a good turnout and there was a
24:37
positive right up in the carillon there
24:40
was a radical newspaper in town that of
24:41
course did an interview that Hampton
24:43
granted an interview to he did not grant
24:45
an interview to the regina leader-post a
24:48
concern more conservative newspaper he
24:50
indicated when he arrived there was a
24:53
big press contingent at the airport and
24:55
he indicated that he would not be
24:56
speaking to the regina leader-post
24:58
because he quote did not like what that
25:01
paper printed about the Indians so you
25:04
know you at least had some awareness if
25:06
even on a superficial level of the
25:09
conservativism of that newspaper and
25:11
also the kind of general conservativism
25:13
of Saskatchewan Saskatchewan has a long
25:16
history of racial discrimination
25:17
certainly was a site of Ku Klux Klan
25:20
activism in the 1920s and 30s and and
25:23
even today Regina certainly has you know
25:25
kind of inner-city neighborhoods that
25:27
are filled with gang problems drug
25:29
problems poverty problems amongst
25:32
majority First Nations Population so the
25:35
campus reception relatively positive I
25:38
mean I didn’t find a lot of negative
25:39
response i’m sure there were some
25:41
students who are not happy about hampton
25:43
coming I’m not all students shared a
25:47
particular radical bent the response in
25:50
the the mainstream press in the
25:51
leader-post there were tons of letters
25:53
written in and editorials right about
25:56
this visit and from what I gathered a
25:59
lot of people were upset not necessarily
26:03
because the Panthers were talking about
26:06
you know the brutality of the American
26:07
police or racial injustice and America
26:09
Canadians you know love to hang their
26:11
hat on this idea that of course the u.s.
26:14
is awful we have no problems here so we
26:17
can look to the United States and point
26:19
out these social problems but what they
26:21
seem to be upset about was the fact that
26:24
the Panthers Fred Hampton and the other
26:26
two routinely referred to authorities
26:29
like
26:29
polices pigs right these were pigs and
26:31
it was so disrespectful write the
26:34
letters that i found that were critical
26:36
of the visit we’re not critical of what
26:38
the Panthers had to say about the
26:40
community breakfast programs they
26:42
weren’t critical about this idea of free
26:44
medical clinics right canada of course
26:46
having in scotland i was going to say
26:48
schedule at home of town tommy douglas
26:50
home of national health care by 1969 you
26:54
know the rest of the nation had also
26:55
adopted this idea of national health
26:58
care so they weren’t critical of that
27:00
they were critical at how rude they
27:02
seemed and how disrespectful to
27:04
authority they seemed and so I I mean at
27:09
first I thought all it’s you know case
27:11
Canadians are so polite but no I mean I
27:13
really think it is because a lot of
27:15
these people writing into the
27:17
leader-post never encountered the same
27:20
kinds of discrimination and police abuse
27:22
that the Black Panthers encountered in
27:25
the US now there were other letter
27:27
writers who pointed that out saying
27:28
thank you for the Black Panthers to come
27:31
eat and point it come for their visit
27:32
and pointing out these problems I don’t
27:35
necessarily agree that the world is
27:38
headed toward fascism I’m not too sure
27:40
about this you know revolution and
27:42
overthrowing capitalism remember it’s
27:44
still too cold war but i might another
27:47
quote i’ll quote one of my sources from
27:49
the regina leader-post a man wrote in to
27:51
say you know i don’t think that the US
27:54
has already fallen to the forces of
27:56
fascism but if I were getting my head
27:58
kicked in regularly by ghetto police I
28:00
might be inclined to think differently
28:02
so the response of the community was not
28:06
entirely negative you know there was a
28:08
lot of support a letter-writer Lennox
28:10
Keith identified himself as a black
28:12
brother he must have been an import I
28:15
don’t know of a lot of Afro Canadians
28:17
living in Saskatchewan in the late 1960s
28:20
so certainly he was a racial minority I
28:23
didn’t sense the racial status of any of
28:26
the other letter writers but it wasn’t
28:28
all negative in the community although
28:30
there was a certain amount of criticism
28:33
but then another area or another group
28:35
that was relatively positive
28:38
to the Black Panthers coming he actually
28:40
created a bit of a connection with the
28:41
group with the local First Nations and
28:44
aboriginal groups and so I’m just
28:47
wondering if you could talk about you
28:48
know how those connections were made and
28:50
how those relations if you were built
28:52
because there are certainly parallels
28:53
between first nations in Canada and
28:56
African Americans in the United States
28:58
yeah there certainly are and and sadly I
29:00
don’t know as much as I you know hope to
29:03
learn one day about these relationships
29:05
I know that Hampton had made plans to
29:08
talk with Harry Daniels who was head of
29:10
the local Indian matey organization i
29:12
know that in the late by the late 60s
29:14
and early 1970s certainly Harry Daniels
29:17
had taken the fight to the federal level
29:19
in terms of gaining status for the matey
29:23
right status Indian status or Aboriginal
29:27
status i should say for me t peoples
29:29
which had been long denied so he was
29:32
identified very early on as a leader of
29:34
this you know kind of racial minority
29:36
group in the province that were adopting
29:38
a much more radical stance than the
29:41
provincial premier or the federal
29:42
government ever expected out of
29:44
aboriginals right because you know for
29:47
so long they didn’t have much say
29:49
politically economically you know the
29:52
idea of radicalism was new to Canada and
29:55
New to the province certainly by the
29:57
late 1960s and Harry Daniels kind of led
29:59
that fight and so I don’t know what was
30:01
said sadly Harry Daniels has passed away
30:04
I haven’t been able to you know identify
30:07
anyone who was at that meaning and I
30:10
don’t have any records of what they
30:11
talked about I imagine it was an
30:14
interesting conversation yeah Kevin
30:17
Rogers oh and but it’s interesting that
30:20
in that respect you can almost see the
30:22
Black Panthers as I mean you mentioned
30:25
that you know all black membership but
30:26
in this respect here’s a way that you
30:29
know they can foster this relationship
30:32
and develop maybe coordinate even with
30:34
with the community in medina yeah
30:36
because they’re facing similar types of
30:38
issues yeah and it’s a way to bridge out
30:41
and expand their reach right and Hampton
30:43
certainly acknowledged that you know
30:45
they weren’t there they didn’t come
30:47
across the border to organize a
30:49
Saskatchewan or a Regina chapter of the
30:51
black
30:51
the party but they would be happy to
30:53
help locals in organizing one if they
30:56
wanted to right so it was it was like
30:58
this strange moment to me when i read
31:00
that because i’m like wow that these
31:02
would not be in fact Black Panthers they
31:04
would be I guess we call them red
31:06
Panthers right whatever they choose to
31:09
call themselves it but it was this
31:11
acknowledgement that I think speaks to
31:13
the fact that Fred Hampton in particular
31:16
and he was not alone but he certainly
31:18
stressed this more than other leaders
31:20
Eldridge Cleaver who is the national
31:22
minister of information coming out of
31:24
the Oakland chapter by 1969 1970 he kind
31:28
of split from the mainstream and was the
31:31
mainstream of the party split from
31:32
Newton and emphasized black nationalism
31:35
black separatism and so it led to a big
31:38
divide within the party who are they
31:39
going to support cleaver who had the
31:41
cred you know he spent time and falls
31:43
from prison and he you know it was a
31:45
very eloquent spokesman he was the
31:46
minister of information after all he had
31:48
written a very popular book with the new
31:50
left called soul on ice about and kind
31:52
of the abuses that the black man faced
31:54
in the US and then Huey Newton right who
31:57
also had the street cred who would spend
31:59
time in prison who had been convicted of
32:02
murder at was overturned on a
32:04
technicality like he had beaten the
32:05
system and so who were the Panthers who
32:08
were the rank-and-file gonna follow
32:10
right and Fred Hampton was emerging very
32:13
very early on as kind of a national
32:16
leader a leader who appeared to be able
32:18
to kind of unite the masses the colored
32:22
masses but also progressive masses and
32:25
that caused a great deal of fear amongst
32:28
kind of white authorities in the US
32:29
which is why you know arguably he was
32:32
targeted by the Chicago Police know the
32:34
before he gets home the the
32:36
circumstances through which it wasn’t
32:39
him know he’s his two traveling
32:41
companion the circumstances through
32:43
which they leave the country hey rather
32:47
interesting yeah so what was the story
32:49
behind yeah well before they even
32:51
arrived there were I found evidence of
32:54
letters to the federal you know
32:56
immigration minister from I forget what
32:59
the official offices let’s catch want
33:01
Attorney General or equivalent right
33:04
saying to the immigration minister you
33:06
know this is a seditious group right we
33:09
shouldn’t let these people into our
33:11
country because of the threat of
33:12
violence the threat of revolution this
33:14
idea that they were you know arguing to
33:17
overthrow capitalist society they wanted
33:19
to do this the immigration minister said
33:21
well our policy is you know in the
33:24
absence of illegal activity when they
33:26
are invited by a reputable organization
33:29
which the Regina Students Union was in
33:31
spite of all their activism on campus
33:33
they apparently were still somewhat
33:35
reputable and they were invited so our
33:37
policy is that we’re going to let them
33:39
in so there was a bit of a debate at the
33:42
higher levels of government about
33:43
whether or not to even let these
33:45
speakers in the Hampton and Calvert and
33:47
Aldridge weren’t the only Panthers that
33:49
came to Canada many others did in
33:51
different provinces and they encountered
33:53
differing levels of difficulty in
33:55
getting there so they come to the Regina
33:58
campus they’re invited to both
34:00
Saskatchewan and Alberta they were going
34:02
to give a talk in Alberta as well at the
34:04
University of Alberta in Edmonton but
34:06
they were stopped at the border between
34:08
Saskatchewan and Alberta and apparently
34:12
what had happened was after the talk in
34:14
vagina after everybody got all riled up
34:17
I guess they were stopped at the border
34:19
and Aldridge and Calvert were deported
34:22
from the country allegedly because they
34:25
had entered the country with false
34:27
identification Hampton this is really
34:30
interesting because Hampton at the time
34:32
was out on bail for that ice cream truck
34:34
robbery in maywood so he was the only
34:36
one who actually faced any legal
34:39
troubles in the United States he was not
34:42
officially deported he was invited to
34:44
leave the country and he did leave when
34:47
his you know fellow Panthers were
34:49
deported so it’s kind of a weird
34:51
situation where the the two who were not
34:55
facing criminal charges in the US were
34:57
deported whereas Hampton who was facing
35:00
these charges was actually not deported
35:03
he just left with his friends what and
35:06
then so he goes back Chicago and what
35:09
sort of the situation that cuz he
35:11
doesn’t live for much longer no he does
35:13
in a few weeks more so what is what’s
35:15
the situation that he returns to what
35:17
circumstances behind behind his murder
35:20
in the late 1960s in Chicago police
35:23
violence had of course been ongoing
35:24
against racial minorities but it had had
35:26
ramped up by 1968 that kind of violence
35:30
was spilling over to others other
35:32
targets as well the 1968 democratic
35:35
national convention right but the Walker
35:37
Commission report that investigated this
35:40
riot outside the convention hall
35:42
concluded that in fact it was a police
35:44
ride it was the police going after the
35:46
press going after protesters white kids
35:48
as we went after Dan Rather and could
35:51
they did they did exactly um the
35:56
targeting of the press was particularly
35:58
I think something that surprised a lot
36:01
of people and a lot of white chicago
36:02
residents weren’t familiar with this
36:04
kind of police violence black folk
36:06
stayed away from the convention that
36:08
like we don’t want any part of this
36:10
because we know what’s going to happen
36:11
because it had been happening to them
36:13
for you know years and years so by the
36:15
late 1960s police violence in Chicago
36:18
had ramped up gang violence had ramped
36:20
up as well it’s you know to be honest
36:22
there’s there’s a lot of black gang
36:23
activity gang activity in the black
36:25
neighborhoods in the Latin the Hispanic
36:27
neighborhoods at the time I’m not aware
36:31
of a lot of gaining activities in
36:33
Chinatown and on the north side Korean
36:35
and Vietnamese neighborhoods but
36:36
certainly there would have been that
36:39
kind of influence as well so there’s a
36:41
lot of fighting in the streets and
36:43
you’ve got this really charismatic
36:46
leader that the black community in
36:49
Chicago is responding to their saying
36:51
you know I don’t know about the
36:52
socialism stuff that he’s talking about
36:54
but I know that they’re feeding my kids
36:55
and if they touch if the authorities
36:58
tried take away that breakfast program
37:00
I’m gonna kick some ass like you’ve got
37:03
mother saving this and so Edward
37:06
Hanrahan was elected in 1968 as the Cook
37:11
County State’s Attorney that’s the lead
37:12
prosecutor for Chicago and Hanrahan was
37:15
very much a cog in the daily machine
37:17
Mayor Daley had kind of hand-picked him
37:19
as his successor Mayor Daley had by this
37:22
point been in office since nineteen
37:24
fifty-five he was getting on in years
37:26
you know he ended up dying as
37:28
mayor in 1976 he served 21 years as
37:32
mayor and an additional five years as
37:34
head of the Cook County Democratic Party
37:36
which was kind of the only party in town
37:39
there were Republicans that ran but
37:42
barely so Hanrahan was this you know
37:47
kind of establishment prosecutor and he
37:49
wanted to go after the gigs right and so
37:51
he’s going to establish this war on
37:53
gangs the special prosecution unit to go
37:57
to target the gangs and to him the Black
37:59
Panthers were just another game and he
38:02
talked in fact when he announced the
38:04
special initiative this gang initiatives
38:06
and the special prosecutions unit he
38:08
announced it to a group of you know
38:09
black mothers in the ghetto and and they
38:13
booed him off stage they’re like they’re
38:16
not animals these are our children and
38:18
they’re fighting these racist police
38:21
officers these abusive abusive police
38:23
officers so Hampton is very charismatic
38:26
leader he’s getting a lot of positive
38:29
press in you know the Black Panther
38:32
newspaper but also in the you know
38:34
regular newspapers of Chicago the
38:36
mainstream press was dependent on the
38:39
paper right the Chicago Tribune was a
38:41
little more conservative a little more
38:42
intransigent didn’t really lie they were
38:44
they were a daily paper whereas the
38:46
sun-times was a little more sympathetic
38:48
to the civil rights movement to radical
38:50
activism so Freddie Hampton was this
38:53
figure who who could have replaced
38:57
Martin Luther King jr. right as this
38:59
kind of central figure of the movement
39:01
arguably he could have replaced him king
39:03
of course was assassinated in april of
39:06
nineteen sixty eight leaving the
39:08
movement without a national figure head
39:11
so a lot of Malcolm X Malcolm X have
39:14
been assassinated in 1965 baby so so two
39:18
of your main yeah you know it within the
39:20
past four years are gone and at the same
39:23
time then you got bobby kennedy also
39:24
gets killed then in nineteen sixty exact
39:26
and sixty-eight excuse me yes I’m
39:29
campaigning and this whole yeah one
39:32
after another right these these main
39:34
leaders right these inspiring
39:37
charismatic leaders and that’s that is
39:39
one thing they all certainly share
39:41
common the charisma of the Malcolm X
39:43
decreases void yeah it did the head of
39:45
the movement it really did and by this
39:47
point in the late 60s early 70s you know
39:50
the Panther Party is also kind of
39:52
splitting you know different chapters
39:54
are doing their own thing and Newton
39:57
Huey Newton himself had a somewhat
40:00
paranoid personality he was prone to
40:02
drug abuse he was also prone to kind of
40:05
the celebrity status he had he he kind
40:07
of fell victim to thinking he was this
40:10
demo demigod right and the party he
40:13
created he lost control as the different
40:16
geographic chapters were doing their own
40:18
thing and creating things like medical
40:21
clinic free medical clinics or
40:22
liberation schools and so you see a lot
40:25
of divides within the party itself which
40:27
of course is helped out by COINTELPRO
40:29
infiltration and interrupted the
40:31
government is trying to break this party
40:33
up Fred Hampton was the kind of
40:35
charismatic leader that people responded
40:37
to and I think there was a great deal of
40:39
fear that he was going to step into that
40:41
void that leadership void so it all kind
40:45
of came together right Hanrahan gets
40:47
elected he creates this war on gangs the
40:50
special prosecution unit COINTELPRO
40:53
gathers the Intel to be able to target
40:56
the chicago chapter of the Black Panther
41:00
Party you know serve warrants for weapon
41:02
illegal weapons possession because they
41:04
do have guns right and so many of them
41:06
were illegally obtained and so on
41:10
December 4th 1969 the Chicago Police who
41:14
staffed the special prosecutors unit
41:16
executed a raid on the headquarters of
41:19
the Black Panther Party which was the
41:21
apartment that Fred Hampton and his
41:22
girlfriend at the time who was pregnant
41:25
eight months pregnant at the time lived
41:27
in and there were several other Panthers
41:30
that were there as was typical in
41:32
Panther headquarters and crash pads one
41:36
of them was Mark Clark he was a wannabe
41:39
Panther I’ll call him from downstate
41:41
Peoria Illinois he was organizing his
41:44
own chapter in another city downstate
41:46
and he was there to you know kind of
41:47
find out from how to do it right and to
41:50
get some insights and so the police
41:53
executed
41:54
this raid a warrant and raided the
41:56
apartment from the start the raid was
41:59
very strange they didn’t use tear gas
42:02
which would have been typical to clear
42:05
out the apartment instead they allegedly
42:08
the police that they identified
42:09
themselves as police officers and that
42:12
the Panthers came out shooting and then
42:14
Fred Hampton ends up getting killed and
42:17
Mark Clark as well were killed in this
42:20
raid and there’s pictures showing the
42:22
police carrying the body of Hampton out
42:24
of this apartment and one of the police
42:26
officers just smiling like we got him
42:29
you know and then it got even weirder
42:32
the police did not secure the crime
42:34
scene and so the Panthers did they
42:39
didn’t let the police back yet and they
42:41
started giving tours through the
42:42
apartment to show all of the
42:45
inconsistencies that the official report
42:47
the police report which said you know we
42:50
called out that we were the police we
42:52
were executing this warrant and shots
42:54
were fired at us so we shot back well
42:57
that wasn’t what happened because when
42:59
ballistics went in they called the the
43:01
Panthers called their own ballistic
43:04
experts in the bullets recovered at the
43:07
crime scene there were something like 99
43:09
98 bullets recovered at the crime scene
43:11
one of them came from panthers guns the
43:14
rest came through fleece comes Fred
43:16
Hampton was shot in such a manner that
43:19
you know he was laying down in bed when
43:21
the warrant was executed and there’s no
43:24
evidence to suggest that someone
43:27
purposefully drugged him but he did have
43:29
drugs in his system he was not a drug
43:31
user so it’s possible that the
43:34
cointelpro informant might have drugged
43:37
him but we don’t know because that
43:39
informant then later on killed himself
43:41
much later on the side I don’t know if
43:44
there’s a direct connection so you know
43:46
Hampton didn’t get up and he was shot in
43:48
such a way that the police you know kind
43:50
of an execution-style the police shot
43:52
him so it was pretty clear from the
43:54
start that the raid did not go down as
43:56
Hanrahan and the police said it went
43:58
down none of these men were ever
44:00
indicted on criminal charges even though
44:02
independent investigations you know kind
44:05
of brought up all these inconsistencies
44:06
these were still
44:08
you know participants in the machine and
44:10
Chicago jury’s never held them
44:12
criminally accountable for these actions
44:15
however Panther lawyers went after the
44:18
city and went after the federal the feds
44:20
and pursued civil charges for the
44:23
violation of Panthers civil rights
44:25
eventually winning a several million
44:28
dollar settlement although it took a
44:29
long time so it’s pretty clear that this
44:32
was not you know a botched raid it was
44:35
pretty clear it was a execution but they
44:38
meant to go out though it was successful
44:40
from the police’s point of view in that
44:42
they murdered Fred Hampton yes what was
44:45
the reaction to this then if you’ve
44:48
looked at it in Regina because he was
44:50
just there what was their strong
44:52
reaction either on campus or in the
44:54
community there was there was a
44:56
torchlight parade you know a kind of
44:57
candlelight vigil held in memory of Fred
45:00
Hampton there were lots of newspaper
45:02
reports condemning the brutality of the
45:04
American police you know the Regina
45:07
leader-post headline was you know
45:09
Chicago Panther leader dies in Chicago
45:12
gunfight and the report was all about
45:14
how you know it was the police story
45:16
right police executed this raid for
45:18
illegal weapons possession and in the
45:20
process ended up in a shootout in which
45:23
Fred Hampton who had recently visited
45:25
our province was killed by the police it
45:28
didn’t report all the inconsistencies in
45:30
the evidence it certainly didn’t report
45:32
the conditions of police violence
45:34
against blacks in Chicago
45:36
african-americans in Chicago so the
45:40
reaction then after this by the Regina
45:43
community or certainly some of the
45:45
Regina community was sympathy with the
45:47
panthers with the panther agenda with
45:49
the suggestion that you know as we ramp
45:53
up radical activism in canada as we
45:56
start to fight against the social
45:57
injustice of racial discrimination of
46:00
you know economic inequalities the same
46:04
things are going to happen to us if we
46:06
don’t do something about it that that
46:08
the RCMP is going to start operating
46:10
like the Chicago Police will if we’re
46:13
successful in our fight against
46:14
injustice so there was a lot of sympathy
46:17
in the community after Fred Hampton was
46:20
killed and I think part of that is
46:21
certainly
46:21
personal connection it was just there he
46:24
was in the province I think November
46:25
eighteenth he was murdered December
46:28
forth so so three weeks later do you
46:31
think maybe that the fact that he’s
46:33
killed so soon after that Lisa this
46:35
legacy like you say I mean your students
46:37
told you about yeah this this visit and
46:41
so clearly it’s something that they know
46:43
about and something that has talked
46:45
about in Saskatchewan early supergiant
46:48
is still so so the fact that the murder
46:50
was so soon after or even that he was
46:52
murdered at all does that maybe lends
46:54
itself to this legacy of this visit and
46:57
yeah holding it up as this really very
47:02
interesting moment in vaginas history
47:04
yeah I mean I think in part sure I mean
47:07
there’s a certain martyrdom to Fred
47:08
Hampton he was such a dynamic leader and
47:11
was able to lead so briefly right like I
47:14
said the party was organized the chapter
47:16
in Chicago was organized in 68 he was
47:19
killed at the end of 69 so he had like
47:20
two years of activism as as the Black
47:24
Panthers a known Black Panther even
47:27
though his activism went back further
47:28
than that but other Panthers were killed
47:31
to write so I think the personal
47:33
connection the fact that he it was Fred
47:35
Hampton who had visited right that that
47:38
I think is a bigger part of that issue
47:42
his legacy certainly is profound but
47:44
there were lots of Panthers who were
47:45
killed there were lots of other civil
47:47
rights leaders who were killed that
47:48
students don’t necessarily know the
47:50
names of so I don’t know yeah I do think
47:55
that there is that personal connection
47:56
yeah for sure sure now if shifting gears
47:59
just a little bit okay let’s talk about
48:00
something else it’s not too Pleasant oh
48:02
hey uh your book came out last year was
48:05
uh your dissertation yes originally so
48:09
it’s called rape and Chicago race myth
48:13
and the court so again study in Chicago
48:16
yes and so just a little snippet what’s
48:19
the book about what’s so a couple cops
48:20
Oh excellent well the book like you said
48:24
came from my doctoral thesis which was
48:26
called proving rape and I looked at
48:29
issues of race relations certainly in
48:32
the city of Chicago but also gender
48:34
relations and how individual
48:35
who find themselves in the court system
48:37
use that system to hold up you know
48:41
their rights as American citizens right
48:43
and how they’re defended in court
48:46
against rape charges most of the
48:47
defendants that I looked at were
48:49
african-americans they weren’t all
48:51
they’re accused of raping white women
48:53
which is kind of the traditional trope
48:55
of sexual violence that it’s interracial
48:58
that it’s these black men who can’t
49:00
control themselves they’re going to
49:01
sexually attacked these innocent white
49:03
women what I found in the book was that
49:05
in fact a lot of victims didn’t fit that
49:08
kind of innocent middle class chased
49:12
image of the rape victim the typical
49:15
rape victim a lot of the defendants were
49:17
black because of the data set I looked
49:19
at these were appellate cases so they
49:21
originally ended with conviction so
49:23
we’re white men not being charged with
49:25
rape or were they just not being
49:26
convicted of it or did they plea bargain
49:28
down by the period i’m looking at the
49:31
1930s to the 1970s probably eighty
49:33
percent of criminal cases went to plea
49:35
bargain they were they never went to
49:37
court so i had a limited data set which
49:40
shaped you know certainly the number of
49:43
defendants that were racial minority
49:47
defendants but what I was interested in
49:49
learning more about was how the
49:51
individuals in the court system who find
49:53
themselves unwillingly caught up in this
49:55
system as either defendants or victims
49:57
how they use the system to kind of
50:00
assert their rights as American citizens
50:02
so so it’s rapin chicago race myth and
50:06
the courts university of illinois press
50:08
2012 yes and we can say with absolute
50:11
certainty that it does not cost 47,000
50:14
it does not cost forty seven thousand
50:16
dollars and some change if you go to
50:17
amazon.ca it is a misprint the price
50:21
however you can get it from chapters
50:24
that’s the area amazoncom with your in
50:26
the US or of course I’m sure if you
50:29
offered to pay forty thousand thousand
50:30
dollars for it I don’t think you
50:31
wouldn’t turn I wouldn’t turn it down
50:33
but I don’t think i would get it because
50:35
i have to sell a certain amount of
50:36
copies before i get any kind of
50:37
commission but anyway
50:39
that’s Don flight from Campion College
50:42
at the University of Regina thank you so
50:45
much for doing this Thank You Sean and
50:47
if you have any questions comments for
50:49
the podcast history slam gmail com
50:52
twitter at dr. Johnny fever and if
50:54
you’re out and you see enrico palazzo
50:56
please say hi thanks for listening to
51:04
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51:06
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51:08
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51:14
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